Saturday, November 20, 2010

Comment on - chicagotribune.com:
General Motors bailout comes at a price

General Motors bailout comes at a price - chicagotribune.com

On Twitter I've had a back and forth wit the UAW apologist @Public_D. It boils down to this. The union with the backing of the government gets to dictate a contract with compensation unjustified by the value of the product. They load it down with a medical and pension plan that kills the company and explodes over time into a perpetual liability. They then use the power of the government to extract wealth from the creditors, bond holders and equity owners of the company to cover the unfunded liability. Now they are selling the stolen property to China with the US government acting as their fence.

5 comments:

Public D said...

It boils down to this: you believe in the supremacy of capital and the unquestioned right of capitalists to organize themselves to reduce risk and increase reward (form a profit-entitled corporation) to such a warped degree that you would deny labor (workers) the same right to organize themselves to reduce risk and increase reward (form a union). It's OK. You're not alone. But things change. Have a great weekend! http://bit.ly/ae2vd4

LifeoftheMind said...

Nasty piece of work that you are I am leaving this up. You call me "warped" and then say "It's OK" and wish me a great weekend. Dripping condescension is not a debating tactic that is likely to convince.

The right of the workers to organize and engage in bargaining does not justify their corrupting the power of the government and using that to steal the capital that is lawfully due to the creditors, bond holders and equity owners of the corporation when it goes bankrupt. The law under which GM and Chrysler operated and all parties entered into good faith agreements had developed over the course of many years, centuries in fact. The UAW and Obama simply tore that up in a naked and unconstitutional display of power. It is in fact doing you little good, unless your interest is simply in seeing America reduced in wealth power and influence, as the market shows that the product is considered tainted and the policies that you support are producing continued widespread suffering among all groups.

Public D said...

You're asking us to feel sorry for the very people who were in a position to force these companies to make desperately needed changes in product, promotion, leadership, etc.? You're asking us to feel sorry for the people who rather than fully funding earned pensions invested that money overseas? Screw them! And screw you! This country is sick and tired of do-nothing "owners" of pieces of paper and 1s and 0s who sit on their asses and fleece the people who do all the work that makes all those profits possible. If the economic collapse had resulted in a traditional "bankruptcy court union busting" affair, we might be neck deep in a real workers revolution rather than the same slick money-shufflers attacking them for wanting what was promised them. 30 years on the line is EQUITY IN THE CORPORATION, you classist jerk! If you're so worried about corruption, where are your tantrums about AIG, Goldman, Moodys,etc.? Millions in bogus bonuses for outright fraud is fine, but auto workers having their pay cut in half to $14/hr. is a cause of - rather than sign of - "widespread suffering." Turn off the CNBC you out-of-touch lackey!

LifeoftheMind said...

To be clear it is not the policy of this blog to allow comments that include expletives or thuggish threats and personal abuse. In this case I felt it would be reinforce the point that the socialist mouthpiece for the union had no meaningful argument. His point boils down to this, "Allow us to steal the company or we will start a 'real revolution' and then you will get massive violence.

What is displayed by the Left is purely infantile. On display are the belief that things are worth what you say they are, the belief that rules can be changed to improve your results, the belief that threats will earn acquiescence, and the belief that your costs can be shifted to others.

No further replies will be accepted.

Public D said...

You're asking us to feel sorry for the very people who were in a position to force these companies to make desperately needed changes in product, promotion, leadership, etc.? You're asking us to feel sorry for the people who rather than fully funding earned pensions invested that money overseas? Screw them! And screw you! This country is sick and tired of do-nothing "owners" of pieces of paper and 1s and 0s who sit on their asses and fleece the people who do all the work that makes all those profits possible. If the economic collapse had resulted in a traditional "bankruptcy court union busting" affair, we might be neck deep in a real workers revolution rather than the same slick money-shufflers attacking them for wanting what was promised them. 30 years on the line is EQUITY IN THE CORPORATION, you classist jerk! If you're so worried about corruption, where are your tantrums about AIG, Goldman, Moodys,etc.? Millions in bogus bonuses for outright fraud is fine, but auto workers having their pay cut in half to $14/hr. is a cause of - rather than sign of - "widespread suffering." Turn off the CNBC you out-of-touch lackey!